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Lenses for Wedding pictures

Jill I agree with most of what you said - I do take issue with the statement that sitting in a sw& for 9 hours under the conditions that are common there will not make you a better photographer... then you mention my idol Ansel Adams who packed a 40 pound camera and tripod up many of the peaks in the western USA and sat for hours waiting as most light chasers do. I spend more time with my camera than most people do - I use it as a tool and have tried to learn everything I can about it technically. What do you think I am doing the 9 hours I am waiting... twiddling my thumbs? I paddle considerable distances often c&ing because to get to an area in the time frame to shoot is not feasible, during the trip I have one thing on my mind and that is shooting awesome images that truly reflect the surroundings (That can't help but to make you a better photographer any way you look at it) - Being in the right place at the right time has more to do with photography than most photographers will ever admit. I have seen award winning shots produced from a throw away point and shoot film camera shot by an ER Nurse who could not tell you what a F stop is - so to discount the fact that a snap in the right time is not a huge part of photography only proves to me that you have not totally indulged yourself in the craft! The point I was eluding to with that statement was that the more time you spend with the tools you are using benefits you immensely whether it is in the comfort of a studio or location shoot out of the weather and elements or in the sw&s dealing with them! Studio situation can be controlled and when you are at the liberty of Mother Nature you have to know how to offset certain problematic situations you never will encounter in a studio! To me and most people I associate with (pro photographers) it is an invaluable tool in learning - maybe you missed something in the translation? Keith
 
Excellent! That is the way to do it. Working with an experienced shooter can teach you much of what you need to know. Certainly one of the best ways to start.

I was not trying to discourage you from photography, but rather showing the pitfalls of diving in over your head into an emotionally charged pool. I could not possibly even approach the discouragement you would feel if you took on a wedding on your own, and failed.

Wedding photography is a very specific specialty, and working as a backup is a great way to learn. I would recommend that you try to work with quite a number of photographers if you can. Try to build a rapport with them, so they will be open to conversation off the shoot. Much can be learned through talking to experienced shooters.

As I indicated in the previous message there are many approaches to wedding photography. Those about to get married should take the time to shop around and find the shooter or studio that has the approach they want. Any wedding photographer worth using will take the time to show a portfolio and discuss not only the range of services, but their philosophy of wedding photography. For the bride, the choice of photographer is only second to the choice of groom! ;-)

Again, the choice of equipment will be dictated by the approach one takes to the task. For someone coming out of the more formal style with film - using Mamiya RZ67s in the studio and Mamiya7II cameras in the field - the move to digital would likely be either to a digital back on a medium-format body, or to the Canon 1Ds which is built on a 35mm camera chassis, but is much more akin to medium format in every other way, including a 16.6MP resolution CMOS sensor that produces images very much like medium format film images.

With a digital back, zoom lenses are few, so the choice would probably be a moderate wide angle for groups, a normal lens for most candids and a moderately long lens for formal portraits. The actual focal lengths would depend upon the size of the sensor, but in 35mm terms they would probably be equivalent to a 28mm/35mm wide angle, a 50mm/60mm normal and an 85mm/135mm moderate tele for the portraits and for use in the church. Some film might be also used.

On the other hand, someone taking a photojournalist's approach, would likely carry a considerably expanded arsenal of glass and a Nikon D2X body - the choice would depend a lot on how the individual shooter works. There would almost certainly be a top quality wide to moderate tele or wide to normal zoom and another with a bit of overlap and extending to perhaps 200mm. The first would be for use outside the church and at the reception with flash. For churches that allow photography during the ceremony, a very fast lens in the 200mm to 300mm equivalent focal length would be ideal for closeups of the couple without intruding. Were I doing it with film, I would also always carry my f-1.8 105mm lens - perfect for getting a somewhat wider view.

On the other hand, a Nikon CP8800 would be a lovely camera for church, since it is silent and has image stabilization built in. If rumour is to be believed, Nikon is about to announce its successor with the APS-sized Sony sensor. With the low noise and added sensitivity, along with a wide-angle to extreme telephoto zoom, it could be ideal for in-church photography. The big problem with the CP8800 is its lack of high sensitivity coupled to a rather slow lens at telephoto settings.

The D70 is a great camera with which to learn. The field of view is the same as that of the D2X so lenses would work identically. The weakness of the D70 is primarily in its construction - it is built for hobby shooters and it will break far sooner than the DX2. The D2X CMOS Nikon-designed sensor provides a very smooth, film-like image with double the pixels of the D70.

Learn the D70 to the point that you never have to fumble to make a change of settings. Go through the manual - page by page, every page - with the camera in hand and actually shoot with the feature being described. Don't go to the next topic until you are clear and familiar with the current. Once you have done the whole manual, don't expect to remember everything. Now use all your spare moments to shoot with it. After a few weeks of frequent shooting, once again go through the manual and review everything. With the experience you have gained, stuff that may not have been clear in the beginning will be clear this time.

Learning photography is no more difficult that learning to be a musician, and the approach is much the same. Daily practice for life with the occasional concert or shoot thrown in. NEVER try anything on a shoot that you have not perfected in practice. It is the time between shoots when you expand your vocabulary of techniques and familiarity with equipment. The idea is to reach a degree of fluency that you never have to think about technique on a shoot. Between shoots, you can take chances that you could not afford to take when others are depending upon your results.

Practice and testing is everything. Shooting weddings or anything else that can not be reshot, good technique is just the prerequisite. Groping for technique gets in the way of photographic seeing. No one chooses a photographer because they are technically competent - that is a given. It is your vision that sets you apart. Great technique is never visible, but poor technique overpowers even great content. Fluency lets you concentrate on making great images.

Secondly, while most film photographers used outside labs, Photoshop has become an integral part of the digital photography workflow. Not only does it let the shooter fully achieve their vision, shooting and processing become one and the same. What you do on location relates directly to what you do in the digital darkroom. I did a shoot a few months back under the most difficult of conditions, and planned precisely how I would work on location to achieve the images upon returning. This level of coordination allowed me to get almost "impossible" quality under these conditions. Photoshop is not for correcting your errors, though that is part of its capability, but rather the prime tool for achieving exactly what you pre-visualized. http://www.larry-bolch.com/las-vegas/

Ask questions - but think how you phrase them. Had you said you were starting as a backup shooter in your first message, I would have given you this answer and any follow-up you need instead of hitting the panic button. Please feel free to follow up with further questions. I have a bunch of tutorials and tips on my web site as well, that may help you and I write on a regular basis in a number of forums.

larry! http://www.larry-bolch.com/ ICQ 76620504
 
A novice photographic enthusiast may successfully shoot a wedding, just as a novice surgery enthusiast may successfully do a heart bypass and close without adventure.

However if either fails, the heart surgeon has the advantage. The failed photographer will have to face the wrath of a livid, putraged customer for the rest of his or her life.

larry! http://www.larry-bolch.com/ ICQ 76620504
 
> To follow up with Larry's string,

I shoot a lot of weddings, with my wife using our D70s as a 2nd camera (lighter and easier for her to handle instead of my D2x.

The lenses that I use---for the faint of heart, these "ain't" cheap, but then again neither is a Porsche------buy a 12-24mm wide angle, you may need it for groupies, especially on a short stage. Also get as a minimum an f/2.8 (use the 17-55mm) and get the 70-200 mm VR (for receptions, low light, for stealth getting those candids.

The way we get around the mother and mother-in-law from hell problem is not too difficult. We arrange a meeting of both families and make sure that our personalities are perfectly compatible. We don't take just any engaged couple that comes in our door. We are extremely picky about who we contract with and only those families with outgoing personalities that can mesh with ours do we choose. There are certain professions that we avoid like the plague (but I won't mention, since there are exceptions, and it may come back to haunt me).

I hope that this info gets back to and helps that fellow who asked the question last week, since I deleted his original question.
 
> The way we get around the mother and mother-in-law from hell problem > is not too difficult. We arrange a meeting of both families and make > sure that our personalities are perfectly compatible. We don't take > just any engaged couple that comes in our door. We are extremely picky > about who we contract with and only those families with outgoing > personalities that can mesh with ours do we choose.

No one wants to lose a client - in any profession - but sometimes it is necessary for the mental health of all concerned. If the chemistry is off, no matter how well you perform your services, you will never satisfy. Better the client becomes your competition's problem.

larry! http://www.larry-bolch.com/ ICQ 76620504
 
> Wedding photographers are well paid. When people are well paid they > tend to become arrogant. I ask this question to you how many times > have you been forced to look at highly paid costly wedding pictures of > your friends and have thought to yourself. They paid that much for > this?

Which is precisely the reason for taking the time to shop with care to find the photographer to produce the images and presentation you want. The product does not exist until the wedding is over, and there are no reshoots. It is not enough to go with someone's recommendation or grabbing a name at random out of the telephone directory. The customer is buying the skills and talent of the shooter, in order that the product may follow and be what was wanted.

Engage the wrong shooter and it is money down the drain. Take the time to get to know who will be working with you. Meet them, see their work, pick their brain. Again, choosing the right shooter is the key to satisfaction.

> > I think a person who loves photogrraphy can do as well as many of the > well paid pros who love marketing and are good at it.

Absolutely - but the same criteria holds. If you are going to use the services of an enthusiast, make sure they have the competence, experience and above all compatibility with what you want in wedding photography.

> Fire away and enjoy yourself.

And do not DARE fail in any way. With wedding photography, there are no reshoots.

larry! http://www.larry-bolch.com/ ICQ 76620504
 
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