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Just released Nikon D2X

> Posted by Innocent (Innocent) > > Having said all the above, the question remains about the performance > of digital RAW capture in terms of latitude and dynamic range. Any > suggestion?

RAW is a very useful format in some instances. When I am feeling very lazy on a shoot, I use it because I can do anything possible in image processing later.

However, it is most useful when conditions are dreadful - you are in a situation with little light, and the light you do have is a great mixture of sources - stage light, light in a club lit with neon, even a commercial shot - say a café with daylight coming in tinted windows, incandescent predominantly inside, but with a neon for accent and an open kitchen area lit by fluorescent. I actually shot this during film days and it took all night in the fume-room to come up with a well balanced 8x10 transparency for an 8:30 am deadline. The shoot was in a far distant city at twilight. I had the corporate client's multi-engine plane and crew to take me there and bring me back. The shoot was too critical to take advantage of the well stocked bar in the aircraft.

Had the shoot been now, I would have shot RAW, opened the image repeatedly, balancing each area not only for colour balance, but also for dynamic range and instead of using physical masking in the darkroom, I would use layers and layer masking in Photoshop. If I had a well calibrated laptop, I could have done the job on the plane, and got a good night's sleep after e-mailing the image to the client - waiting there at the opening of business. The end result would have been of equal or better quality.

The contrast limits of digital photography are quite similar to Kodachrome. However, when bracketing Kodachrome, you are hoping to get exactly the density needed for the job. A slide the projects beautifully will reproduce poorly and vice versa. With digital, I stil bracket, but take the highlight detail from the darkest image and the shadow detail from the lightest and use the interim steps for making a smooth transition.

RAW does not have as extended a dynamic range as a bracket, but it does allow around 2.5EV to 3EV under some circumstances, using the same technique. It offers only around 0.5 to 0.66EV in the highlights - if that - but allows one to plumb the shadows for considerable detail. Of course, this technique can be coupled to the above technique to gain both in colour balance and dynamic range. See an illustrated tutorial on bracketintg that works identically with RAW at http://www.larry-bolch.com/layers.htm

See an ex&le of RAW being used for extended dynamic range and colour balancing under the worst possible combination of mixed light and low light at "Sharing an Image" near the mid-page at http://www.larry-bolch.com/ephemeral/

There is also an ex&le of extreme clouds for your collection on this page near the bottom, shot with a NIKON CP990. Speaking of sky, when it is serene, one wants it to look serene in the photograph, capturing the delicacy of the gradients. Not all skies are dramatic. A camera - and photographer - needs to capture and interperate both.

larry!

http://www.larry-bolch.com/

ICQ 76620504
 
Larry, It kinda bothers me when people think RAW is the lazy photographers medium. (lol.....but I do know MANY photographers that see it and use it this way) Now....I agree totally about the use of shots blended together to expand dynamic range in your end product as you describe. Less noise than trying to bring details from shadow information....and blown hilights....you just usually cant recover (at least less lattitude)

I also agree that it can save yer butt on those shots that are maybe off the cuff and you really dont have time to get things perfectly dialed in on your camera for the scene in front of you is happening RIGHT NOW.
happy.gif


But RAW can also be about quality.

Using the 12Bits Per Channel Per Pixel does afford more editig headroom, it also equates to better quality of your end product.

You also have the lack of compression artifacts that you find in jpg.

You also have more choices of true conversion of the raw data to a larger color space (like ProPhotoRGB) In JPG... aRGB and sRGB are your only real options. They can be converted, but the converter tries to extrapolate color from color that isn't within the space.

I also dont see using a RAW edotor like ACR as POST processing, as that software just takes the place of the software that is in your camera when you shoot jpg......the only diffrence is that your in control....kinda like the dark room of old. I think of it more as PRE processing.....because in Jpg (most peoples choice when shooting)....thats usually the part they start editing on.

Wether you use it as a "crutch or a buffer" or you really take the time to get your shots right inside the camera.....RAW just makes sense.

Just my .02....of course.

Roman
 
Thanks for your response Larry. The techniques about enhancing the DR and resolving the latitude issue that you suggested in your website are standar d but time consuming. One advantage of shooting with the F5 + MF28 is that yo u can layer all (up 9 shots I think, in multiple exposure mode) your brackets in-camera with the result of obtaining a further dynamic range on which eve r medium you choose to use. I must admit that this in-camera layering has now been incorporated in the d2x a feature I will be looking very closely at.
 
Innocent....

The whole reason at least a few of us who bothered to take the time and make galleries was not due to taking your bait. It was simply to say the 4 letter word begining with F and followed by the word you. That simple. Though some wouldn't put it as bluntly as me.

Larry, I don't understand why you spend so much time answering his questions which just continues to inflame the situation. You are a man of immense experience and yet seem to want to waste it on him. Looking back at your posts answering him, you have had to repeat things several times with no success. He wanted blue sky, we gave him blue sky, and now he argues' other points. Please take your rose glasses off Larry and see Innocent for who he is. The sooner he is ignored, the sooner this time wasting will stop.

Paul
 
Hi Roman, just got to see your gallery. The images are beautifull. I miss the mountains. Here in Florida the land is pretty flat, but we have a different type of scenery to capture. I will soon purchase a Scanner to scan the better of tens of thousands of slide from my past. Including some beautifull images of Arizona and New Mexico. Thank you for taking me down memory lane.

I noticed you print images 13" wide. What printer do you use and are you satisfied with the results?

Thanks again

Paul
 
> Posted by Paul Tchiloyans
>
> Larry, I don't understand why you spend so much time answering his
> questions which just continues to inflame the situation. You are a man
> of immense experience and yet seem to want to waste it on him. Looking
> back at your posts answering him, you have had to repeat things
> several times with no success. He wanted blue sky, we gave him blue
> sky, and now he argues' other points. Please take your rose glasses
> off Larry and see Innocent for who he is. The sooner he is ignored,
> the sooner this time wasting will stop.

Were he the only one reading this forum, my comments would be absent.

He symbolizes the ultimate inept photographer, seeking a "silver bullet" solution. He is not unusual in that regard. Discouragingly often, I have had fans come and ask what camera I use so that they can buy one to take pictures like I do. I have met many enthusiasts who learn a famous shooter uses a specific developer, film or some other element and they go dashing after it, sure that it will magically elevate them to the status of the one they admire. Time after time it fails. They feel cheated when it does not work for them. They blame the shooter who - in their mind - obviously does not know what he is talking about.

The element they ignore is a mirror. Even a quick glance will show them the weakest link in the chain. As we well know it is not the equpiment - but the photographer who makes the great images.

However, there may be others in the forum with some of the similar concerns. Perhaps a silent majority. It is for them that I write.

As you may notice, I do not debate. I offer my experience and back it with relevant references to work on my web site. I hope it helps beginners, and may also broaden the insight of the more experienced. I am hardly a beginner, but still learn and grow from the ideas that are exchanged in forums such as these and the web sites of mature shooters.

As a photographer whose experience has only been with film, adding digital media may be baffling or even threatening. If I can help deal with these fears, lives will be enriched with the experience.

It is not about Innocent - it is about photography, and what I can contribute to the medium and to the art. He just plays my "straight-man", feeds me ideas to which I can respond for the whole forum.

larry!
http://www.larry-bolch.com/
ICQ 76620504
 
> Posted by Boris Nastasich
>
> Larry I really like the Aurora shot. Did you ever print that one 16X20
> or so? If so, how'd it look?

Thank you. It was a full minute exposure on a night so dark, I could not even see the camera. I used the swing and swivel LCD of the CP5000 as a light source to change the settings! In fact, it was the first exposure with no preceding test shots.

I have printed it smaller and it really glowed. I do have 13" x 19" capability in house, so may give it a try at that size. I expect it would look very good.

larry!
http://www.larry-bolch.com/
ICQ 76620504
 
Larry, please accept my appologies. You are right. You are looking at the bigger picture. Yes, every post you have made should be of immense help to those that wish to learn.

That is also why I have a problem with innocent, because many of the newer members may take his words as facts, and run with it. But with the amount of mumbo jumbo that he has posted lately, it should be clear to the newbies, that he is no one to be taken seriously.

My deep appologies for having criticized you,

Paul
 
To Larry, your comments are quite un-welcome and lacks all reasons. What a drivel. To Paul Tchiloyans, you must be a very angry man, or shall I say unstable. Sorry I can't help
 
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